Afton Brazzoni trades scarcity for mindset-driven growth

TL;DR

Afton Brazzoni, founder of Scribe National, moved from a scarcity mindset to building a business that feels sustainable, intentional, and fully her own. From launching a content agency to experimenting with coaching, Afton opens up about the fears that almost held her back – and the mindset shifts that helped her move forward.

In this episode, we cover:

• Scaling from freelancer to agency owner
• Letting go of perfectionism and control
• The emotional side of launching and pivoting
• How mindset coaching created clarity and confidence
• Finding balance between ambition and enoughness

If you’ve ever thought one wrong move could ruin everything – this episode is for you.

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Transcript

Rachel Meltzer (00:00.876) Welcome to the show, Afton. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Afton Brazzoni (00:04.118) Yeah, thanks for having me, Rachel. It's nice to sit down with you again. My name is Afton Brisoni and I'm the founder of a content marketing studio called Scribe National.

So we're based in Canada, but we work with clients all over the world. And our main focus is B2B content marketing and particularly long form content. So we get to tell really great stories, dive into topics and, you know, kind of extensive research, original research, and just have fun with it. So yeah, we've been doing that for about five and a half years now.

Rachel Meltzer (00:35.204) Perfect. Yeah. I love that you were able to take your business and sort of expand it with the help of other people and freelancers. I think a lot of people who listen to this show are like, okay, I'm a freelance writer now, but what do I do next? Like, how do I keep growing? And there's so many paths you can take. Like some people make a course and try to do passive or semi-passive income. Some people go into like the...

content marketing agency sphere and other people might get into coaching. So it's kind of interesting. You've sort of done two of those paths, but before we dive into like how you expanded into an agency, what did starting your business look like and the path that like led up to that decision?

Afton Brazzoni (01:20.896) Yeah, I've actually done all three of those paths and we can talk about that. yeah, so my business journey, actually really started out as just a passion for writing. So I began as a journalist about 15 years ago and I pretty quickly went into PR and marketing. And then I was working in a marketing role and finding that I just wasn't doing the amount of writing that I was craving.

And so I started, well, I mean, really, I kind of always been picking up freelance work on the side, but I guess I just got a little bit more attention about it. This is back in 2019. Kind of decided to give it a name, Scribe National. Never anticipated it to really be a company. Never anticipated to take it full time or have a team or anything like that. But I think that, you you start out with something in mind.

which was the writing and things can change, but that's really always been core to our business. And even though ironically today, like I don't do very much writing, not nearly as much as I used to, it's still definitely something that we're known for and it's kind of in the anchor point.

Rachel Meltzer (02:28.484) Yeah, totally. How did you decide when it was time to expand into an agency and hire help?

Afton Brazzoni (02:37.824) Yeah, that's a great question. It was honestly sort of just a necessity. So when I started the business, had within six months, I took it full time. And really that was just due to getting laid off during COVID with almost everybody that I worked with. And I was like, you know what, let's go for this. And it ended up working out really well. So March, 2020, I took it full time. And then by that summer, it was just so busy that I needed help. And I like, I was already working

Rachel Meltzer (02:52.932) Mm.

Afton Brazzoni (03:07.606) seven days a week, 12 hours a day, and I just didn't want to work more than that. And so, yeah, that was a lot. And I don't work merely that much now. But yeah, I just kind of needed to bring some people on board to help me execute these projects. And it ended up being that that was a model that worked really well. So I just stuck with it. it's kind of remained, like the agency has definitely grown over the years, but we're a small team. it's, I have no interest to, you know,

Rachel Meltzer (03:11.086) Yeah, that's a lot.

Rachel Meltzer (03:16.388) Mm.

Afton Brazzoni (03:35.32) build a massive company or anything like that. It's kind of remained that really close knit boutique kind of feel over the years and that's worked well for us and our clients.

Rachel Meltzer (03:43.79) Yeah, yeah, that's kind of nice that you know you don't want to expand too much. I think there's a misconception that like you should always be growing in business forever. But actually, like we can just be happy when we get to the point where it's enough to be thriving, but not so much that you're like stretching yourself in.

Afton Brazzoni (04:02.038) I totally agree. you know, when we think about growth, it's like we can grow other things too. So there have been times where the business revenue doubled. I've done that once. I wouldn't want to do that every year. It's not fun. but like, don't think of yourself in a plateau. It's like, you can pick other things to grow. You know, you can grow instead of your revenue. You can grow your profit. You can grow your amount of time off. Like there's so many ways to do it.

Rachel Meltzer (04:07.908) Mm-hmm.

Rachel Meltzer (04:30.232) Mm Yeah. How did you decide like you did some passive income stuff before you started talking to me about expanding into other avenues like coaching? What did that look like for you? And like, how did you feel about it? feel like everybody has their own feelings about passive and semi passive income if you've tried it and how it went, you know?

Afton Brazzoni (04:52.064) Yeah, so for me, it was definitely not entirely passive. did have, well, and I do still have a course currently it's not for sale, but it's a brand messaging and content strategy course. But what I wanted to do with that, because I am a people person and I really do like the interaction. And I also think that people learn well that way. I had live coaching that went along with it. So in that sense, it definitely wasn't passive, but it was.

I guess you could say scalable in the way that there were multiple people that could be taking the course at the same time. And I, you know, honestly, I really enjoyed delivering it, but because it had a set start date, it was always like a really big push to market it, to kind of get everybody set up to start at that exact time. So I think if I were to do something like that again,

Rachel Meltzer (05:37.252) Mm-hmm.

Afton Brazzoni (05:39.924) Just for my own personality, I would have it be kind of like a rolling enrollment. I just feel like that's a bit less. I'm not, I'm not somebody who loves launching and things like that. So I think that that's less pressure and that would work, but I would say, you know, worthwhile doing just kind of know like your marketing style and how you like to promote things before getting into something like that.

Rachel Meltzer (05:50.009) Yeah.

Rachel Meltzer (06:01.262) Totally, yeah. think really the only way to get started is like with passive or semi-passive income or even branching out like with my coaching stuff. The only way you're really gonna get clients consistently and in a good rhythm is if you're doing launches. I like your, you have this.

expectation as the person who's running the launch, who has spent all this time learning about launching. Like I took a whole course about launching, took a whole course about passive income and creating a good course. And it's not that my course wasn't good. It's that the marketing for the course is so much effort and it's hard to get it right. And you're not going to get it right the first time. Like my first four launches were failures according to my goals. And

I treated myself like it was a failure rather than being like, okay, what could I do differently next time? Or it's just my first launch. Of course it didn't go perfectly into like a 10 person, 10K launch, right? Like we have these unrealistic expectations sometimes and also no understanding of what some of these things actually mean in practice emotionally and physically and time wise. You're like, oh, I'll just launch my course. And then it's like, okay, I guess I'll launch my course.

Afton Brazzoni (07:20.206) Yeah, I do. do. And I think like that's something I always tell my clients when they're interested in just launching anything like that. And I was even having a conversation with someone about that today. And I just said, however much you think you need to market it, you know, double that triple that like it's it's it is a heavy lift. But they can be really great assets to have. And I think like in

You know, we're always talking about content repurposing nowadays. And I feel like it's something that's really good for that too, because you're always going to have that material and you can choose how you want to share that with people and you can, you know, mix it up and give them something different every now and then.

Rachel Meltzer (07:58.104) Yeah, I mean, the best thing about launching is that if you once you've done it once, then you can take that data and those, those emails, use them as templates or whatever else you content you made to push this and then repurpose it for the next launch and just keep tweaking it until it sounds more like you and meets your audience where they're at more and just gets better and better. And it's easier to launch every time. Like it used to take me like eight to 10 hours to create a launch. And now it takes me like two or three because I've

done it so many times and each time is more successful than the last. Like last year I had my first like truly over 10K launch with only five clients. And I was like over the moon, so proud of myself because that was just like the benchmark that I had set for myself. I'm like, if I can do one 10K launch per quarter, then it just makes it so I have this like baseline of income. So everything is less pressure above and beyond that.

especially because it's a service that I love. But before last year, launching was like the worst thing in the world to me. And I think also, I talk about this all the time on this podcast, like you really have to figure out what channels are right for you as well. Like I started out on Instagram and it was not the right channel for me. I hated it and my audience could tell that I hated it. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't bode well if you're not enjoying doing what you're doing.

Afton Brazzoni (09:18.912) yeah.

Rachel Meltzer (09:23.202) You know, so then I found LinkedIn and YouTube and podcasting and things that feel better to me. And that's great. But launching is not for the faint of heart. And there are so many other things you can do. Like I don't really launch pop club ever. I am doing a launch for it this year just because I moved platforms. So it's like a revamped service and I'm to like reintroduce it, but I don't really ever launch pop club and it's steady and stable. have 50 members and growing and it's just.

Afton Brazzoni (09:43.585) it.

Rachel Meltzer (09:51.542) It's a nice service that I don't have to worry about. So you can kind of have a mix if you're offering coaching. It doesn't just have to be hard launching all the time.

Afton Brazzoni (10:01.23) for sure. And I always recommend that to people like having a mix, whether it's coaching or you know, I know a lot of your listeners are writers, like freelance services, whether it's having like a couple of anchor clients or retainer clients or however you want to describe them, then having kind of either one off projects or like one off coaching sessions that you offer people and I also think that keeps it interesting to

Rachel Meltzer (10:24.886) Mmm, yeah.

Afton Brazzoni (10:26.134) you know, like at Scribe in terms of our done for you work, we have our regular monthly writing clients that we're always working with. And then we'll also do kind of condensed projects of either brand messaging or content strategy. And so we've always got different things going on and I feel like it just, yeah, it just keeps it more exciting, but also is a healthy, like revenue wise, a healthy approach for the business.

Rachel Meltzer (10:50.008) Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's nice to have those anchor clients, especially because the process is repeatable. So you spend less effort because you're following a system over and over executing. And then the one-off projects might be a little more unique. So you have that efficiency with your anchor clients, which I think is really important because otherwise those one-off projects, if everything's a one-off project,

your brain unless you have a process for that, like a four week done for you website, like Inkpot Creative, who came on our podcast earlier this year. Like they have a one month website done for you, but it's like templatized and they have like an onboarding system and it's so systematized that it's, it works for them. However, that can go so poorly if you do not templatize and systematize everything. Those one-off projects can just become such a like.

brain burden and there's so much context switching. So I always do like one of those per quarter, maybe two. And then the rest of my clients are like consistent anchor clients. But it's nice to have a balance of like, if I was just writing blogs every day, like I used to do that. I just, I just got to a point where I was like, I never want to write a blog again.

Afton Brazzoni (12:07.254) Yeah, think, yeah, you've got to mix it up a little bit for sure. But to your point, the systems and the processes are key. And especially, like, I really don't think there's a right or wrong when it comes to whether people want to stay solo or kind of grow a team like I did or grow honestly, full service agency. It's whatever you want to do. But if you do want to grow, especially having systems and processes is everything. And I just remember like the first year

We were doing lots of one-off projects that were very random. There was really no consistency. There were no templates, no systems. And it took so much time. And, you know, Afton that, I switched it up and I was like, one-off projects, sure, messaging and strategy, but we know how to do those like clockwork. And so everything is systematized and it is a massive time saver. And it's also great if you want to take a vacation and have your business still run, which I just did.

Rachel Meltzer (13:02.328) Yeah, yeah, that is huge. I think a lot of freelancers just don't take vacation because they feel like they can't or they're too scared to. And even if you're not planning on hiring people, looking at what we call your SOPs, your standard operating procedures, we also just had someone on recently about standard operating procedures. That's not something that you necessarily need as a solopreneur, but if you have them, it makes it so much easier to

hire out help to be able to even organize your own schedule so that you're not context switching as much and also to be able to take vacation. So you can see what your standard operating procedures are and you're like, okay, if I had to take a week off, what about this would need to change? And it makes it like, if you are not working on your business and looking at your business and everything you're doing and really able to like list it out and list out how much time that takes and what it really looks like, then

you're going to end up overbooking or underbooking yourself because you won't be able to like really figure out the puzzle. know, if you don't have the pieces, there is no puzzle. You're just looking at a poster, you know?

Afton Brazzoni (14:10.937) yeah.

Yes, yeah, exactly. And I think like, it's so true, even if you're working on your own and you intended to stay that way, just having that mindset of like, this is a business and I have these systems and for I mean, I'm a creative person for a lot of us, like that's the last thing we want to do. But it is a huge help. And sometimes the way I get through it is I just like bring snacks to my desk and I just do those tasks that I don't love, but that I know are going to set me up for greater ease in the future.

Rachel Meltzer (14:41.932) Yeah, there are some things I do with like a TV show I've already watched in the background that just makes it more entertaining. Or one of those shows that you don't really have to like pay too much attention to, but it's a little funny or something. Like when I have to do my LinkedIn, like sending connection requests and follow ups, direct outreach, trying to get clients and stuff, I put on the TV and I'm like, okay, for this one whole episode, I'm just going to do this and I can do it. And it doesn't hurt. Like I use templates for everything with LinkedIn.

I personalize them, of course, but because it's a template and I'm just filling in the blanks, sometimes I have a glass of wine or a little beer or something. treat yourself, whatever you need to do. You don't have to always be at your desk being a perfect person.

Afton Brazzoni (15:18.775) Yeah

Afton Brazzoni (15:24.046) 100%.

Afton Brazzoni (15:29.312) Yeah, I think anything to get you through and that's the thing too is like knowing where in your business you just have so much energy and then where it's going to be a little bit of a slog and kind of planning for that is very, very smart.

Rachel Meltzer (15:42.762) Yeah. All right. I really want to talk to you a little bit about mindset because you attended the Brave New Path retreat last October that me and Marie hosted. Also, Marie has been on this podcast twice, so I'm really shouting out old episodes today. I don't know why they're all just like coming up today. It was such a great, like small group, intentional, thoughtful, just like emotional weekend with

Afton Brazzoni (15:53.036) Yes.

Afton Brazzoni (16:02.424) I love it.

Rachel Meltzer (16:12.804) a bunch of women who are just trying to figure out what's next in their life. It's like, know you want to do something different, but you're not sure what's holding you back or even how to go about making that plan. And one of the things that kept coming up over and over for you specifically was like, if I make a change or try something new, I might just like ruin my entire business and I will just be fully destitute. This like complete fear that everything's gonna come crumbling down.

And I know for a fact that you're not alone in that because I've heard that from so many of my coaching clients. And it's one of those things that our brain is doing to protect us, even though it's actually like holding us back from finding even more success. What was that like for you to like explore that fear and how did you take that into your business Afton the retreat?

Afton Brazzoni (17:03.958) Yeah, that's a great question. By the way, it was an amazing retreat. And if you ever do one again, I will be there and I highly recommend that everybody listening consider it. but it, but yeah, so I think like the biggest thing that really strikes me with this is how that is such a all consuming fear that seems so real, but it would just never play out that way in real life. And that was something that Marie called out at the retreat and kind of walked through an exercise of like, well,

what would happen if xyz and I would answer the questions and I would kind of realize like well that would never happen because I would step in and I would make sure that things were okay and since then I just kind of realized that like it just it just doesn't play out that way at all because when you're building something new and in my case like I had the existing business

that is going to continue. It's not like one just shuts down one day and the other one starts. Like that's just not the way life works. And so, you know, the content agency is, is actually so busy right now that I haven't even had as much time as I want to dedicate to the new venture. But yeah, it's just funny how like you talk yourself up about things and it's actually quite illogical, but it seems so real.

Rachel Meltzer (18:25.986) Yeah, it's like an emotional catastrophizing that just builds and builds on itself. it, gains its own momentum and it's, it's natural. It's your body's natural way of keeping you safe, even though it's not logical. It's just like, like I always say, politics aren't logical. They're about emotions. It's, the same thing within your body, right? It's your body like convincing you. Yeah.

Afton Brazzoni (18:48.108) Yeah, yeah, because it's just, and I don't know, it's funny too, because I kind of almost should have known, because I've said this before to business friends that I've had, but like every big decision that I've had to make in my business seemed like it was gonna be impossible until I was on the other side of it. Starting the business was, falls in that category, hiring people to help me falls in that category, this conversation we're having now.

Rachel Meltzer (19:04.407) Mm. Always.

Afton Brazzoni (19:13.708) And it's like, I should have recognized that, but yeah, I think things seem like such a big hurdle to us because they're unknown, but really it's like anything else. You're going to figure it out.

Rachel Meltzer (19:16.192) Mm-mm.

Rachel Meltzer (19:24.438) Yeah, you're not going to let yourself fail. And even if it doesn't work out, a lot of times it's not actually failure. It's just like you learn you didn't want to do that thing or that it wasn't right or it didn't fit in to where you want your life to go or whatever, you know?

Afton Brazzoni (19:37.782) Yeah, it's more of a redirection. And even like going back to your point before about the quote unquote failed launches, it's like, that's actually an experiment, like you've learned something, you know, so with anything we do in our business, it's, yeah, but it's just funny how worked up we can get ourselves in our own heads about things.

Rachel Meltzer (19:40.036) Mm.

Rachel Meltzer (19:47.652) Exactly.

Rachel Meltzer (19:56.804) Yeah, and I think it's important to call out to you say, I should have known. I don't think that's true. It's like you're shutting yourself. That's what my therapist always says. But it's one of those things like people might look at you and your business from the outside, especially like your super professional LinkedIn profile photo and like how on top of shit you are. And you are a perfectionist in a lot of ways. that's why everything comes across as like so polished.

Afton Brazzoni (20:03.554) True.

Afton Brazzoni (20:12.93) you

Rachel Meltzer (20:21.88) It's not that your business isn't thriving or successful or that you're not thriving and successful, but I think so many people would look at you and be like, that girl doesn't need coaching. That girl doesn't need to go to therapy. But it's just because they only see one aspect of you. It doesn't matter what stage in your business you're in. Your brain is still following you and saying bullshit. it's like everybody, even I need coaching. Like this is exactly why I go to coaches and therapists because

I do the same thing, like we all catastrophize and it's completely a normal human experience. But what... Yeah.

Afton Brazzoni (20:57.306) yeah, yeah, done so much coaching, so much therapy. yes, it is, yeah, it's true. And I guess it's also that saying like new level, new devil. So it's like, no matter what you're doing, even if you are experienced, like this is a new thing for you. And so all of those emotions are gonna come back.

Rachel Meltzer (21:16.866) I had never heard that phrase before, but that is perfect.

Afton Brazzoni (21:20.256) Yeah, I think it was actually a coach of mine who used to say it. yeah, it's just because you could have somebody who's like, I don't know, been killing it for 25 years. But if they try something new, the same emotions are going to resurface.

Rachel Meltzer (21:33.188) Totally, totally. Yeah, and even sometimes new emotions too. Yeah. What drew you to coaching? How did you decide, you're like, okay, I need to go find a business coach or a mentor or someone who can help me work on my mindset.

Afton Brazzoni (21:37.486) True, yes, exactly, yeah.

Afton Brazzoni (21:50.134) Yeah, so this was actually pretty early on in my business. And for me, and this is funny, because it's probably not going to surprise you based on the destitute worries I had. It was about scarcity mindset. So that was the reason that initially drew me to it. Although so even before I started my business, I actually worked with somebody who did coaching like as their side business. And so I was exposed to that, and just how powerful it was and how interesting it was. And at the time, this was the only person I

Rachel Meltzer (22:02.617) Mm.

Afton Brazzoni (22:20.048) I knew who was involved in it and it's funny because now I could list like dozens and dozens of people. But so I had done a little bit of coaching with her and you know, when I started my business really realized that scarcity mindset was a big thing I was going to need to work through. So I did some coaching on that and then kind of started getting into the more like business specific and strategy coaching. And it's just been something that's always been a part of my business pretty much the whole five years. And I

would not be where I am without it. It's been incredible.

Rachel Meltzer (22:52.74) That's amazing. I'm the same way. I actually like really was judgy of life coaches or business coaches when I first started. I was like, I don't need that. Or like they're selling snake oil or so, you know? I just didn't understand what the point was or what the value was. I was skeptical. And my sister hired a business focused life coach on the recommendation from one of her friends from college.

And she decided, my sister decided not to start a business Afton hiring this coach and she bought a whole package. And the coach was like, well, you can like gift the sessions to someone if you want, but I'm not going to give you a refund. And so she gifted the sessions to me because I had been freelancing and running my own business for three years part-time at that point. And then I got into the sessions with this coach and she wasn't exactly like the right coach for me. Like our styles were different. I'm not like a time blocker. And she was like,

down to the minute time blocking that kind of thing. But the mindset stuff was insanely helpful. Like she just uncovered shit that I didn't even know I had a problem with. Like I was charging $35 an hour for freelance writing services. Like what was I doing? You know, and I just, didn't know any better. It only worked like hourly contract jobs that were like $18 an hour. So I'm like, 35, that's a good price.

Afton Brazzoni (24:19.094) Yeah.

Rachel Meltzer (24:19.554) I didn't have the skills to set my rates properly and stuff like that. And I learned so much from her about the practical stuff, like setting your rates and creating the assets that you need to get your clients and things like that. And also the fact that your mindset and your scarcity mindset is so important. I went through the same thing, the scarcity of saying yes to absolutely everything, even if rate is not right and that kind of stuff. just takes.

time, but it helps to have a mirror. like that I should have known thing. I, there are so many times I say that to my therapist and she's like, well, actually this is why you're in therapy or to my coach. She's like, well, we're here to be a mirror for you. Right? Like sometimes you just can't see your own bullshit within yourself. And sometimes you don't necessarily know how to work through it without someone asking you the right questions, you know?

Afton Brazzoni (25:17.188) yeah, the questions are huge. like going back to the retreat, that was something that both you and Marie asked such good questions. yeah, like back on the mindset stuff, I would just say in general, that was my biggest surprise becoming an entrepreneur. you know, I knew that coming in with more of a journalism and PR background than a marketing background, there was going to be some of the sales and financial type stuff that I just like wasn't.

Rachel Meltzer (25:32.834) Yes.

Afton Brazzoni (25:45.07) as well versed in as I was with my writing skills. And I kind of knew that like the business aptitude was something I was going to have to learn, but it was just a massive wake up call that the personal development of becoming like of working for yourself and running a business. And I mean, everybody that I talk to now pretty much says that as well. It's just like the thing that is often such a big surprise is how much personal growth you'll need to do and like confront those emotions, right?

Rachel Meltzer (26:09.444) Hordely.

Yeah, I always say like you cannot grow a business without growing yourself at the same time.

Afton Brazzoni (26:17.078) Yeah, literally, like it will only grow as much as you do or it'll be blocked by the blocks that you have, right?

Rachel Meltzer (26:25.432) Yeah, yeah. So you've done the semi passive income of a course and you've scaled to an agency and you've worked on your mindset. What is next for you? Like how does the next level of your business look?

Afton Brazzoni (26:42.316) Yeah, that's a great question. So I think, you know,

Based on what we talked about earlier, like I am not somebody that just believes in grow, grow, grow, or like arbitrary numbers, things like that. The biggest measure for me is like, does the business feel good and does it fit my life? And in so many ways, like the answer for that is already yes. But that's what I'm always looking to. And it's like, if it starts to stray off track, you know, that's what at least for me is very important that I want to watch. And I think a lot of us, right, we work for ourselves because we want a certain lifestyle and we want to enjoy things like hiking or whatever we

like to do. So I think what's next for me is really just keeping it true to all of that, like continuing to have the content agency side of the business and work with a select number of clients and just get to know them and do really high quality work for them. Like that's what it's about on that side. And then as you know, and the reason why I was at the retreat is I now

have started offering coaching and strategy services for freelancers, solopreneurs, even agency owners too. Really anybody who has a service-based or creative-based business. And so that's the new thing that I am super, super excited about.

Rachel Meltzer (27:54.04) Yeah, I like that you've been able to start treating it like an experiment. think when you're at the retreat and you're making your first blueprint for this business, it was very ambitious. Not to use ambitious as a bad connotation, but it was ambitious. had these high standards that you set for yourself without accounting for what we call ordinary you, the person who still has emotions and still already runs a business.

has a life. And it's cool to check in with you every three months and see, yes, you've backed off a little bit and gotten a little more realistic for yourself in a way that seems a lot more gratifying and less pressure built. How is that? You're experimenting and adjusting as you go. How does that work for you? How are you figuring out when you need to adjust?

Afton Brazzoni (28:49.376) Yeah, it's been really fun actually. And it's so true that like anything I just approached it with like the highest achiever, like I'm very type A, as you know, it's like high achiever, whatever. And it's hilarious when I look back at that, because I think now it just has unfolded in a way that I would say the biggest thing is that it's allowed me to be very creative, which I love to do. Like the type of marketing

You know, I'm sure you've got listeners who write for all sorts of niches, predominantly we're doing tech.

B2B marketing, right? At Scribe. And not that it's not fun, right? We don't, it's not that we don't love our clients or have fun, but it's just a very different kind of marketing that I get to do now promoting this new offer. And it's enabled me to run some events that have been really fun to team up with people on doing some of those, to, know, just lead people through exercises that are like deep thinking, creative, the marketing that goes along with that has really mirrored all of that and has been very personal and fun.

Rachel Meltzer (29:29.188) Mm-hmm.

Afton Brazzoni (29:55.542) And so, yeah, it's definitely better when you take the pressure off and when you, like you said, you account for regular you and things that are gonna happen in your life. And I look at this as like a long-term plan and it's not something where I need to like achieve world domination overnight by any means.

Rachel Meltzer (30:14.608) Yeah, yeah, I think it's easy for us to want to set these metrics like KPIs, key performance indicators, so that we can like sort of try to predict the future almost. I think things, especially with coaching, I mean, any business is going to unfold in its own way with things that you don't expect.

but especially with coaching because it is very like individual human being focused services. It's not working with companies as often. It's mostly individuals. There are so many things that you might not expect or things that take more time or relationships you're gonna build. And when you get into the services and offering the services, whether it's the marketing or actual execution, there are things that you're like, I should do this differently next time or I had.

no idea I needed to expect this. There's so many little things that come up that sort of shape your business on its own. I don't offer that course anymore, but I did realize it's still valuable information. It's just that the majority of my clients are either past that or want it in a different format. And so I now offer that course live and for free, but check out Get Started Freelancing if you're interested on my website. But it's one of those things that

It doesn't necessarily, even though something didn't go the way you planned, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a failure. It doesn't mean you can't still use it or repurpose it or try something different. But the plan with the KPIs is just a goal. It's not necessarily like, this is the roadmap. This is how it has to go. Because you just can't, you have no idea what's going to come up, whether it's a roadblock or a success. You can't predict the future.

Afton Brazzoni (31:59.05) Yes, 100%. And like, since the retreat, you know, I've had major roadblocks come up. I've also had really good things come up that, even just getting back from my trip recently, I had two inbound requests for work that would technically be on the agency side. And you just have to be flexible. And that's, that's another thing like with entrepreneurship.

I was never somebody who like enjoyed or felt comfortable going with the flow. And that is, I guess, part of that personal growth that it will just force you like, it's not a nine to five job. You can't predict it. You're you're absolutely right. You can't predict the future. And you almost kind of start to actually appreciate and love that a little bit about it Afton a while, I think.

Rachel Meltzer (32:44.45) Yeah, yeah, totally. It's hard too sometimes because you want to be able to predict the future because you want to know how much money you make and where your clients are going to come from and how everything's going to shake out. But at the same time, it's like so much more. My job is so much more enjoyable because I'm actually listening to my clients and what they want as a coach. And it was so much less enjoyable when I was trying to figure out like, what do people actually want? And like, just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

unfounded, like spaghetti that was not tasted by anybody. It was just thrown. And now that I'm like, here, would you like a sample of spaghetti for free? Tell me, how did you feel about that? What would you like? And then adapting because of that, it's so much more fun for everybody involved, you know?

Afton Brazzoni (33:29.696) Yes, yeah, and the data is there. Like that's all we have to do is just listen to clients and the answers are there. And I think a lot of times we overcomplicate it. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Listening is huge and they will tell you.

Rachel Meltzer (33:44.438) Yeah, yeah. Or like, we almost want to like do all the research and know all the answers before we dive in, but you just can't. the best way is to learn by experience and getting clients, even if it's at a lower rate to start just to experiment.

Afton Brazzoni (34:00.718) And I remember that came up with the retreat to this idea of like, okay, well, I can't do it until it's perfect. But then it's like, well, how are you ever going to know until you test and iterate?

Rachel Meltzer (34:14.36) Yeah, yeah. And also like doing it your own way. Like you wanted to do the sales page first. Like that was exciting to you. That was the creative part that you were looking forward to that would feel good, that would set the structure for everything else. And I totally understand why. But I also challenged you to be like, what if you just try to get an experimental client without a sales page first, just to see what they have to say. Because you did end up changing your sales page based on your real experiences.

Afton Brazzoni (34:38.282) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think it's like, there's always best practices, but at the same time, there are no rules, you know, so it's like a mix of both and just kind of understanding that like, there is no playbook, like central playbook for freelancing or business that's going to work for everybody. And that's why having a coach is awesome, because you can, like you said, have things mirrored back and understand your own nuances.

Rachel Meltzer (34:46.948) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachel Meltzer (35:06.7) Yeah, yeah, totally. All right, well this was amazing. I would love to know, to share, sorry, where people can find you online and maybe get some coaching or content from you.

Afton Brazzoni (35:22.4) Yeah, well, it's always so much fun to chat with you and I really loved it. But people can connect at scribenational.ca if they just want to see, you know, our services, what we're about. Where I am most active would be LinkedIn. So just Afton brazoni on LinkedIn. And then Instagram is like a secondary one still just at Afton Brazzoni on Instagram.

Rachel Meltzer (35:43.428) Perfect. Yay. Thanks for joining me on the show today.

Afton Brazzoni (35:46.274) Thanks for having me, Rachel.